You're obviously correct about Fellowship, and I feel that in some objective sense Return is the second best film (from the point Sam carries Frodo it's basically perfect), but I think I actually enjoy watching Two Towers more. The character assassination of Treebeard, and to a lesser extent, Faramir, is annoying, but I don't think Jackson successfully assassinated Theoden, despite trying to have a plot line about him kinging badly, he messed up the specifics so badly that Theoden comes out fine. Bernard Hill is just *so* good, Miranda Otto's Eowyn is also excellent, and it has the best music of all 3 films.
I would like to watch the Tolkien edit, but am held back by the 'breaking the law' thing. I don't suppose you have all 3 DVDs? I figure if I borrow them then it's at least morally legitimate to watch the edit.
No wonder you didn't like the Hobbits sequels if they're overlond :-)
"battle scenes which make the second and third part of the Matrix Trilogy appear tightly focused" nearly led to the water I was drinking being sprayed all over the monitor.
Interesting that you're one of the few people I know who feel the assassination of Treebeard than Faramir! I agree Theoden's mangling is less bad, but the bit where he's reluctant to help Gondor is pretty bad.
I agree here are many very good things in the Two Towers (though I didn't love Bernard Hill as you did) but the character assassination makes it less enjoyable to watch for me than other changes (elves at Helm's Deep, Army of the Dead does different stuff) do. Together they contribute to a sense that Jackson's Middle Earth is a much bleaker place than Tolkien's, where it feels most of the Free Peoples outside the fellowship are selfish and barely worth saving, which I don't like.
I'm afraid I don't have all three DVDs (though saw all at the cinema), though they are currently on sale from Amazon for £14.99.
I will watch the Hunt for Gollum fan film and update this post accordingly!
Army of the Dead and Theodon reluctant to help Gondor are both from the Return of the King film, so your rankings may be distorted here :-).
I agree that most people hate the Faramir assassination more, but I think if Tolkien had told Faramir the way Jackson did no one would have blinked an eye, it's a good story, just a different one. Whereas if Tolkien had done Treebeard this way we'd still have said "Hold on, this betrays your whole concept, and doesn't make a blind bit of sense".
(I also love deliberate rather than impulsive rises to heroism, especially those in the face of hopelessness. That the ents know they're probably all going to die if they do this (they don't know Saurman's army is away), but they decide to do it anyway. Not because their reason gets swept away by emotion but because some things are worth dying for. The March of the Ents, together with Aragorn's bending the Palantir to his will are my two favourite passages from the book.)
Came back to say I'd watched and added The Hunt for Gollum and realised I hadn't replied to this!
Army of the Dead is one of the changes I don't mind. :-)
I totally see where you are coming from with the ents, and agree it doesn't make sense - and it definitely contributes to The Two Towers being the least good - but I just don't mind as much as you, probably because I love the ents less than you in the first place.
I don't think you're right that the Faramir change is just as good as a story. Perhaps the narrow story of Frodo's journey from Rauros to Cirith Ungol works as well, but in a world where Faramir acts as he does, Denethor is stripped of nobility and Imrahil absent, Gondor becomes a much bleaker place.
I agree that Jackson's Gondor lacks the greatness of Tolkien's, and that that's a problem. I think if book Faramir had stumbled as film Faramir does, he would still be a sympathetic character, and Gondor would still be great, and the story would work just fine, but that film Faramir contributes to the problem with film Gondor (however I maintain that this is a sublter problem than 'everything about the ent's decision to go to war is wrong on every level')
Is no one else going to comment on the misspelling of Tolkien in the title?
(I don't have anything to say on the content, and didn't want to make a comment *just* correcting spelling, so I was waiting for one of the people making contentful comments to do it.)
Wasnt there a 1970s Soviet TV version? Surprised you havent covered it!
I will have to look it up!
You're obviously correct about Fellowship, and I feel that in some objective sense Return is the second best film (from the point Sam carries Frodo it's basically perfect), but I think I actually enjoy watching Two Towers more. The character assassination of Treebeard, and to a lesser extent, Faramir, is annoying, but I don't think Jackson successfully assassinated Theoden, despite trying to have a plot line about him kinging badly, he messed up the specifics so badly that Theoden comes out fine. Bernard Hill is just *so* good, Miranda Otto's Eowyn is also excellent, and it has the best music of all 3 films.
I would like to watch the Tolkien edit, but am held back by the 'breaking the law' thing. I don't suppose you have all 3 DVDs? I figure if I borrow them then it's at least morally legitimate to watch the edit.
No wonder you didn't like the Hobbits sequels if they're overlond :-)
"battle scenes which make the second and third part of the Matrix Trilogy appear tightly focused" nearly led to the water I was drinking being sprayed all over the monitor.
Point of pedantry, there is already a Hunt for Gollum fan film from 2009 (remastered version now available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZWuxEwqYzM&t=0s&ab_channel=IndependentOnlineCinema ).
Interesting that you're one of the few people I know who feel the assassination of Treebeard than Faramir! I agree Theoden's mangling is less bad, but the bit where he's reluctant to help Gondor is pretty bad.
I agree here are many very good things in the Two Towers (though I didn't love Bernard Hill as you did) but the character assassination makes it less enjoyable to watch for me than other changes (elves at Helm's Deep, Army of the Dead does different stuff) do. Together they contribute to a sense that Jackson's Middle Earth is a much bleaker place than Tolkien's, where it feels most of the Free Peoples outside the fellowship are selfish and barely worth saving, which I don't like.
I'm afraid I don't have all three DVDs (though saw all at the cinema), though they are currently on sale from Amazon for £14.99.
I will watch the Hunt for Gollum fan film and update this post accordingly!
Army of the Dead and Theodon reluctant to help Gondor are both from the Return of the King film, so your rankings may be distorted here :-).
I agree that most people hate the Faramir assassination more, but I think if Tolkien had told Faramir the way Jackson did no one would have blinked an eye, it's a good story, just a different one. Whereas if Tolkien had done Treebeard this way we'd still have said "Hold on, this betrays your whole concept, and doesn't make a blind bit of sense".
(I also love deliberate rather than impulsive rises to heroism, especially those in the face of hopelessness. That the ents know they're probably all going to die if they do this (they don't know Saurman's army is away), but they decide to do it anyway. Not because their reason gets swept away by emotion but because some things are worth dying for. The March of the Ents, together with Aragorn's bending the Palantir to his will are my two favourite passages from the book.)
Came back to say I'd watched and added The Hunt for Gollum and realised I hadn't replied to this!
Army of the Dead is one of the changes I don't mind. :-)
I totally see where you are coming from with the ents, and agree it doesn't make sense - and it definitely contributes to The Two Towers being the least good - but I just don't mind as much as you, probably because I love the ents less than you in the first place.
I don't think you're right that the Faramir change is just as good as a story. Perhaps the narrow story of Frodo's journey from Rauros to Cirith Ungol works as well, but in a world where Faramir acts as he does, Denethor is stripped of nobility and Imrahil absent, Gondor becomes a much bleaker place.
I agree that Jackson's Gondor lacks the greatness of Tolkien's, and that that's a problem. I think if book Faramir had stumbled as film Faramir does, he would still be a sympathetic character, and Gondor would still be great, and the story would work just fine, but that film Faramir contributes to the problem with film Gondor (however I maintain that this is a sublter problem than 'everything about the ent's decision to go to war is wrong on every level')
Is no one else going to comment on the misspelling of Tolkien in the title?
(I don't have anything to say on the content, and didn't want to make a comment *just* correcting spelling, so I was waiting for one of the people making contentful comments to do it.)
Oh, that's annoying (my misspelling, not your pointing it out!). Thank you.