"If neither of these occur, they want the party they like second best to win over a party " - either lose 'over a party' or add 'they like less.'
In West Wing your 4th point "they want policies they support enacted, and policies they oppose not enacted" is not borne out - they want issues that favour them with the electorate to still be in play. Is this a case where Hollywood is more cynical than real politics?
I think most politicians do genuinely want to achieve change in the world that they believe is positive (and I also remember West Wing less cynically than you, as I recall the characters there wanting that too).
You're quite right, I should have said your 4th point is not always borne out. Comes up more in the 7th season when we're focused on the campaign for the next president. My impression is that West Wing is mostly much less cynical than real politicians, which made it seem likely this was a thing.
Yes, my understanding is that the West Wing is generally seen to be an idealistic depiction of politics, and agree that political considerations are more likely to trump others the closer it gets to an election, so that feels accurate.
My claim is definitely not that politicians always place policies before politics, or even that they mainly do, just that they do have things they want to achieve, and that this is one factor in their decision-making!
Your Board Game analogy sounds very similar to the Board Game 'Britannia' where the players are given counters to represent armies invading the Island from Julius Caesar to William the Conqueror. In the last few turns, there are Saxons, Normans, Norwegian Vikings, Scots, Welsh, Picts, Dubliners, and maybe the remnants of the Romano-Brits all piling in to gain what teritory and points they can on the final Turn
I do think this post has some merit, eg it was notable on who voters would vote against and it was worth noting that it was 6% of Labour voters who wouldn't vote for the Lib Dems which was three times the level of that of Reform voters at 2%. Neither is that surprising, but in particular the low level of Reform voters.
Back in the day, the Lib Dems tended to do well in strong UKIP areas as there was a significant proportion of UKIP voters who were anti-system / big two parties and if the Lib Dems could persuade they were the viable option they picked up the votes. Given Reform is just a variant on UKIP the figures prove no surprise.
Labour has [lost] more votes to left-wing parties
"If neither of these occur, they want the party they like second best to win over a party " - either lose 'over a party' or add 'they like less.'
In West Wing your 4th point "they want policies they support enacted, and policies they oppose not enacted" is not borne out - they want issues that favour them with the electorate to still be in play. Is this a case where Hollywood is more cynical than real politics?
Thank you - corrections made!
I think most politicians do genuinely want to achieve change in the world that they believe is positive (and I also remember West Wing less cynically than you, as I recall the characters there wanting that too).
You're quite right, I should have said your 4th point is not always borne out. Comes up more in the 7th season when we're focused on the campaign for the next president. My impression is that West Wing is mostly much less cynical than real politicians, which made it seem likely this was a thing.
Yes, my understanding is that the West Wing is generally seen to be an idealistic depiction of politics, and agree that political considerations are more likely to trump others the closer it gets to an election, so that feels accurate.
My claim is definitely not that politicians always place policies before politics, or even that they mainly do, just that they do have things they want to achieve, and that this is one factor in their decision-making!
Merry Christmas and may you enjoy many Parsnips and root vegetables
Your Board Game analogy sounds very similar to the Board Game 'Britannia' where the players are given counters to represent armies invading the Island from Julius Caesar to William the Conqueror. In the last few turns, there are Saxons, Normans, Norwegian Vikings, Scots, Welsh, Picts, Dubliners, and maybe the remnants of the Romano-Brits all piling in to gain what teritory and points they can on the final Turn
That sounds like a fun game!
It was a very popular game for many years, but quite hard to get hold of now.
I do think this post has some merit, eg it was notable on who voters would vote against and it was worth noting that it was 6% of Labour voters who wouldn't vote for the Lib Dems which was three times the level of that of Reform voters at 2%. Neither is that surprising, but in particular the low level of Reform voters.
Back in the day, the Lib Dems tended to do well in strong UKIP areas as there was a significant proportion of UKIP voters who were anti-system / big two parties and if the Lib Dems could persuade they were the viable option they picked up the votes. Given Reform is just a variant on UKIP the figures prove no surprise.